Onus on BJP to uphold values of constitution and civilization: Sudheendra Kulkarni

The black paint attack on Sudheendra Kulkarni ahead of former Pakistan foreign minister’s book launch by Shiv Sena has created a political concern in the public sphere that has raised questions regarding the stability of BJP-Sena alliance in the state. The chairperson of Observer Research foundation and former director of PMO during the tenure of Atal Bihari Vajpayee , Sudheendhra Kulkarni talks about the changing political scenario of the country and shares his insights on the necessity of tolerance of opposite views. Kulkarni , who is the author of the book , ‘Music of the spinning wheel’ which he describes as ‘Mahatma Gandhi’s Manifesto for the internet age’ also aptly shares his views on India-Pak relations . After delivering a talk on ‘Mahatma Gandhi belongs to present and future’ at the Department of Gandhian and Peace studies, Manipal University, Sudheendra Kulkarni sat for an exclusive interview.
After the incident in Mumbai do you think 'Modi led BJP' should think over again about the 26 year old alliance with Shiv Sena? Do you think to overcome the present political dilemma, BJP has to take a firm ideological stand?

I do not want to comment on the internal dynamics of one party and another, that is not the purpose for which I have come here but I can tell you this much to address your second part of the question. Any government in India irrespective of which party holds it, it has its responsibility to uphold the basic values of the constitution and of our civilization. These values are tolerance, diversity, freedom of speech and since now it’s the government of BJP led NDA, obviously the BJP has bigger responsibilities.

Pervez Musharaf's 4 point agenda for Kashmir settlement , we know the concerns of implementation of Manmohan government but how does Modi look at his proposal and after the changes in political establishment in 2007 does Pakistan still stick to that proposal?

It is not possible for me to answer what the Modi government is thinking about something that transpired between the governments of India and Pakistan during the rule of Dr.Manmohan Singh and his counterparts. I believe our PM started his tenure on a very positive note when he invited Nawaz Sharif and other head of states of SAARC countries for his swearing in. It means that he believes in the vision of harmonious relationship between India and all the SAARC countries. Subsequently in our dialogues with Pakistan there have been certain flip flops. We take one step and sometime there is a reversal .Nevertheless, I am encouraged by the joint statement released by Mr.Modi and Mr.Sharrif when they met in Russia in June this year. It was a very constructive statement and I believe that statement provides a platform for the two countries to go forward. Our PM will be visiting Pakistan sometime early next year to attend the next SAARC summit and that summit should be a successful one. It should improve India's relations with all countries in South Asia especially Pakistan.

Bilateral dialogue may look like the most ideal solution to solve problems between the two countries. But these dialogues very frequently are pushed back and fail when new issues prop up between the two countries like cross-border terrorism and allegations from India that Pakistan sponsors them. What would you say about that?

These are not allegations, these are facts. Pakistan is indeed guilty of encouraging the terrorist groups to attack India and this truth must be accepted by Pakistan. What was 1993 bomb blast in Mumbai? Dawood Ibrahim ,the main convict is being given shelter in Pakistan. In the 2008 26/11 attacks , where did those 10 terrorists come from? They came from Pakistan, so cross border terrorism is indeed true and Pakistan must accept this truth and it must stop and in fact Pakistan has agreed in 2004 when Vajpayjee went to Islamabad for the SAARC summit. Joint statement issued after his meeting with Musharraf said that Pakistan shall not allow its territory to be used for terrorist activities targeting India. It’s a commitment and they must fulfill it. So they have accepted the responsibility, they just have to implement and by doing this they are not just doing a favor to India , they should realize that terrorism is also hurting them. Pakistan is a bigger victim of terrorism than India. For their own interest they should stop terrorism. They have taken some steps but they should do more.

What do you think about the role of military industrial complex in maneuvering, if not manipulating the foreign policy of India and Pakistan towards each other. Since both the countries heavily fund in advancing their military capabilities because of a common sense of insecurity towards each other and not considering the overall productivity, ,sustainability and empowerment of their respective citizens primarily ?

See it is in the interest of arms exporters in the world to keep conflicts alive because then they can sell their arms to both India and Pakistan and make money. Why should we be spending our scarce resources on military hardware targeting each other? Instead why can’t we have peace? Let's consider France and Germany, they fought long wars including the world wars. They killed so many people belonging to each other's population. Today are their armies deployed on the borders? French army aiming at German army and the other way round, is that the case? Wisdom and statesmanship lies in taking such steps which should progressively make it possible for us to have tranquility and peace on the border more co-operation , more trade , more people to people contact so that there is trust . There is no trust between India and Pakistan, the trust has to be built. If we build trust we can reduce our expenditure on armies and those scarce resources can be used for fighting poverty and for providing the basic needs in both India and Pakistan which is our noble cause and it’s a much needed cause.

Does Pakistan establishment go through a tough time in figuring out the balance between security objectives and economic realities and have they introspected the thought of how relevant Kashmir is for Pakistani people and what do they feel about it?

You see, let us be realistic. You have raised a very important question. Many Pakistanis believe that their country's approach to Kashmir and the way they took it up with India first in ways that precipitated into wars and subsequently in ways that precipitated into terrorist attacks. These have in fact brought more harm to Pakistan, there is that realization Does that mean that people in Pakistan have given up their stand on Kashmir? That will not happen. In India we should be realistic about this. We think that Pakistan will not be able to sustain the economic expenditure and they would eventually give up their stand on Kashmir and then the problem will solve but if we think in this way, we are fools. It's not going to happen. So therefore, we should be realistic, we should be wise. We should solve the problems in ways that will satisfy Pakistanis and us and satisfy the people of Jammu and Kashmir and which in turn will open new possibilities for bringing India and Pakistan closer. Just imagine if we solve the Kashmir issue in a way that satisfy both the sides and the next question would be, why don’t we make the Punjab border porous. Punjab used to be one but today there is one in Pakistan and India. We should strive for the confederation of both the nations.

Since you are a man of ideology, you consider every aspect before following an ideal. You shifted from CPI (M) to BJP because you felt Marxism not only cannot be an idea in India but also in any other corner of the world. You followed the ideologies of BJP since you were a Gandhian and also endorsed Gandhian socialism, in that context don’t you think even Gandhian socialism could be a failure when it comes to practicality and will remain as an ideal because according to Gandhi a nation should move with minimal defence and military where as India is a country with 4th largest military force. So if practicality was the main concern, don’t you think even the ideals of BJP could be non-viable?

First of all I am not with the BJP now but I believe that Gandhiji's insistence on non-violence must become the guiding principle of foreign policies of all he countries including the major countries. This kind of militarization that we have seen is first of all contributing to unhealthy and unfriendly relations among nations. In today’s world there simply cannot be any use for these weapons, let’s accept this. You mentioned that India is also a major military power and wanting to be an even more stronger military power, this is a situation that cannot be addressed by any single nation alone. It’s unrealistic to think so. There has to be today a global action by especially the people and not the government of the world. They must demand demilitarization of International Relations They must demand that big nations like the US, UK , China , France and of course now India. They should in a finite period of time should first eliminate nuclear weapons, eliminate other weapons of mass destruction also reduce the military expenditure. This must be a global demand and this global demand the people of India should join their voice. If this happens we might see in the coming decades more acceptance of these demands. I don’t know if my answer satisfies your question.

Sir , even though you said how Gandhi’s ideals could be considered on a practical level , the decision behind your transitional shift from a left wing to right wing is yet unclear, since even Marxist ideology is very ideal and maybe impractical to an extent like Gandhian socialism .

There is no philosophy, there is no ideology that is entirely practical but if you believe in certain ideals, if you believe in certain principles, you must strive for their realizations to the extent possible. When I left communism, I believed that the communism is not the way forward for India or any part of the world but there are some good aspects of communism which I still adhere to just as there are some good aspects in the ideology of the BJP which I adhere to. This labeling of left and right, as if there is nothing common in between the two does not appeal to me. It is actually creating an unhealthy divide whereas today we need to be open about what is good and synthesize that good. That’s my approach.

In your book “music of the spinning wheel” you have also dedicated certain volumes to Nuclear weapons issues. Do you believe in nuclear disarmament? And do you think India should take the first step towards this goal?

Nuclear arms as Gandhiji said are a sinful use of science and the entire world to take steps to eliminate nuclear arms from the face of earth. In my personal view India should not have become nuclear weapons nation but now that India has become a nuclear weapons nation, it must still continue to strive for a world without nuclear weapons and as a major nation in the world now it must lobby and appeal to all other countries for a simultaneous disarmament of nuclear weapons within a firm finite time-frame.

By Akash Singh Rathour and Nachiketh Tekawade, Nadeem Ahmed

www.themanipaljournal.com